Heat transfer coefficient

Numerical methods and mathematical models of Elmer
Juha
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Posts: 357
Joined: 21 Aug 2009, 15:11

Re: Heat transfer coefficient

Post by Juha »

Hi Bill,

yes well, there are two domains 'left' and 'right' with a shared boundary in the middle. Now the
internal middle boundary is defined doubled in .grd file (the fourth number in the boundary definition
is 2). Both boundaries are written with index 1 to the mesh.boundary file.

The sif file defintion 'HeatGap=True' in the BC 1 instructs ElmerSolver to look for this double
boundary and setup heat transfer between the boundaries using the "Heat Transfer Coefficient",
i.e.

Code: Select all

 
flux_L = HTC*(T_L- T_R)
flux_R = HTC*(T_R - T_L)
Otherwise the two domains are independent due to the doubled boundary.

Hope it helps, juha

P.S. You can (at least try) to make existing mesh have doubled boundaries using

Code: Select all

ElmerGrid 2 2 mesh -discont boundary
where the 'boundary' is the mesh boundary index you want doubled. The option may
be given several times for different boundaries. Don't know how well it'll work out
in corners crossing different doubled boundaries though, maybe it will?
raback
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Re: Heat transfer coefficient

Post by raback »

Hi Bill

I would be hesitant to use the heat gap option if you can do without. Why are you reluctant to mesh the cement slab? I mean it's not probably in the mm range but rather in cm:s at least. This will still keep the element ratios in an acceptable level. The strength of FEM is just to be able to present different geometrical configurations with ease. If you have pure linear conduction, you just need one element layer for the cement slab. Meshing also the cement will keep you in a generic path and not take you to some exotic mesh structures that require special BCs for each equation. And if in your mesh you still present the cement by the properties of the soil, for example, you will have a hard time ensuring that the heat transfer of the mutated cement + gap condition coincides with that with the actual cement.

-Peter
petroo
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Joined: 13 Jan 2010, 19:07
Location: Aachen, Germany

Re: Heat transfer coefficient

Post by petroo »

Hello Bill,

I'd support the other Peter's view w/r/to a direct modeling of the greenhouse's cement foundation. Being a theoretically rather uneductated practical scientist :oops: I'd even suggest to model the whole system as 3-D, as the calculational power that is required afterwards is not too excessive and you can directly relate to a scientific/engineering hands-on experience.

This suggestion brings me back to my former idea of a (somewhat) flat insulation of the surrounding instead of a deeper excavation of the greenhouse foundation. Imagining the 3-D situation my idea behind this is as follows: If you regard the heating volume of interest in the ground as roughly being a sphere-like volume of ground below the greenhouse, with a deep dug insulation just following the foundation you would cut a sector in the ground that the house will draw heat from. If you laid out the insulation flat on the ground (or slightly below), you would just tilt the angle of the sectorizing from vertically into the ground to horizontal, thus creating a larger semi-sphere of warm ground even in colder atmospheric conditions.

There are studies on the atmospheric heat penetration into the ground, saying that already in a depth of about 2 m the seasonal amplitude is near to neglegible (sorry, but I do not remember the precise figures). So, if you lay out your insulation flat for 2 m in the vicinity of the greenhouse the cold would have to creep this distance (from the unprotected ground to the outer limit of the greenhouse) to affect the heat balance, and would protect the soil below from cooling out.

I'd consider the additional amount of preserved heat - namely the one in the soil in the angle between vertical and horizontal from the corner of the greenhouse - as mostly neglegible from a pure heat balance point of view. But you would definitely gain (and certainly not lose) a small amount, and would certainly require much less digging efforts for its realization. You would, of course, create a margin of cool soil surface around the greenhouse, but I guess this is not an opposing argument.

With respect to simulation I'd take the soil temperature in a depth of about 4 or 5 meters as constant, would research the heat capacity and heat conductance values of the soil you have at your place, take these as input parameters in a respective full-volume simulation and leave out any artificially set heat gap parameters. Additionally you could model the the surface temperature of the non-insulated soil and might take respective values from the many EnergyPlus climate models that would give you a respective temperature time series. But I guess you might as well forget about this effect.
Unfortunately, Goggle Sketchup is not available in Linux (lest you used wine, which I have not had a great deal of success with).
I wouldn't go for Wine but a full-fledged Windows virtualizer: I've made the best experiences with VirtualBox. In fact I need it in an about three-monthly turn to make my tax statements, as this area of applications is not yet sufficiently covered by Linux applications. :lol:

Regards,

Peter
(the one in Germany ;) )
Juha
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Posts: 357
Joined: 21 Aug 2009, 15:11

Re: Heat transfer coefficient

Post by Juha »

Hi,

just for the record, i do agree with the two Peters that the proper (and probably the easiest)
way to deal with this is to mesh all the different domains...
Regards, Juha
Elatreshkhaled
Posts: 1
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 17:44

Re: free convection Heat transfer coefficient

Post by Elatreshkhaled »

I am Elatresh Khaled from libya, mechanical Engineer/ power department, I am doing research about the free convection heat transfer on flat plate, and the calculation of the heat transfer coefficient in case of specialy horizontal plate, and the all the other positions
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